Chris Ronzio (01:54):

Hey everyone, welcome back to Organized Chaos. I'm your host Chris Ronzio, and today I'm really excited to have on a fellow author Lisa González. Hey Lisa.

Lisa González (02:04):

Hi Chris. It's wonderful to see you again.

Chris Ronzio (02:06):

Great to see you again. So it's been a little while since we chatted, but of course we're here to talk about your new book Process! How Discipline and Consistency will set you and your business free. I love that title.

Lisa González (02:19):

Yeah, it's fantastic. And you are wonderful to spend some time with me when we were writing the book and share some of your experiences. So I'm glad to reconnect now that the book has been written and is out.

Chris Ronzio (02:30):

Yeah, absolutely. So we'll get into the book. We'll spend a lot of time on this. It's new from the Traction Library by US Worldwide, and you wrote it with Mike Peyton over there. And so there is just tons of wisdom and nuggets in this book, and I want to come back to that. But before we do, let's sit the entrepreneurial stage here. I want to hear about your journey and really when you started to realize the benefits of process, of documentation. So take us back, where does it all start?

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Growing Up In A Family Of Entrepreneurs

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Lisa González (02:56):

So it starts actually in my childhood. I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. I would say I grew up in Southern California and I'd say my family started probably 10 different businesses as I was growing up. And so they had 10 businesses and in all different industries, whether it was in product sales or in services, and along the way, 10 businesses, four kids, and they had zero process. So as a result, we had a lot of chaos. I've shared that I remember the tension at the family table sometimes when either products weren't going out on time or files weren't organized, whatever it was, or even cash flow issues. And so early on when I was a, I'd say a young teen, I'd help my family with working weekends and in many, many summers just trying to support our businesses and contribute how I can, and initially understanding there's this opportunity here. I didn't think I articulated it like that at the time, but to become a little more systemized, whether it was how we filed or timelines or just making lists of everything. And that's where it all started.

Chris Ronzio (04:01):

Do you think you've always been an organized person? Would you classify yourself that way?

Lisa González (04:07):

I think, is it nature, nurture? I don't know. I think so. And I'm sure there's an author Marie Kondo who wrote The Magic Art of Tidying Up or something great like that.

Chris Ronzio (04:16):

Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa González (04:17):

And she shares in her book, and I could hear in her book, this is probably 15 years ago, the background story, this family energy going on that made her who she was. And she even acknowledged it later that her diving into other people's processes wasn't really appropriate. And so I think it's my nature, I think I try to reign it in now and understand where it's appropriate and where it's not. But that's where it started, certainly. And then as I became an adult, I ended up going to college. I went to law school and I ended up working with other businesses. I was an employment defense lawyer. I was doing business law.

(04:54):

And along the way, I got married to an entrepreneur, and you would think I would've run from the entrepreneurial world at that point, but instead I joined a startup that he had with a vision of is in the residential remodel space with a vision of having offices across the country and becoming one of the largest residential remodelers in the country. And so as we did that, the organization grew, but we grew in fits and starts. We were members of EO and YPO and we learned some great stuff along the way. And I knew that. And I think along the way I learned about process and documented processes. And so for better for worse, I single handedly decided I'm going to document all the processes in this company. And red flag because I didn't involve the leadership team. I spent nights and weekends doing it and eventually presented it to the leadership team.

(05:50):

And it was this ridiculous over detailed, unmanageable thick binder full of processes that much to my surprise, the leadership team didn't put me on their shoulders or name a street after me. They didn't say... No hugs, nothing. It just fell flat. And even I eventually forgot about it, it ended up just in a dusty notebook behind my desk, which even that is behind my desk, so not even accessible. So every piece of how I did it was wrong, and we continued on our way and then we ended up opening an office across the country without processes. And it just hit us so hard financially where we ended up losing a million dollars and taking out loans and all of our 401ks and everything. And so then the whole leadership team became invested in maybe there's a better way to become a little more systemized as an organization. And I understood the value of getting people involved. And around that same time, we got a copy of the book Traction, which describes how to document your processes. And I went straight to the back and started doing it.

(06:55):

And with the help of the leadership team it made all the difference. So, that's the journey of up to recent history.

Chris Ronzio (07:02):

Well, I can see how a million dollar mistake there, a million dollar lesson would really ingrain this in your DNA. So, that makes total sense.

Lisa González (07:09):

You would hope. You would hope.

Chris Ronzio (07:10):

Yeah. So it's funny that you grew up in an entrepreneurial family around all the chaos because I grew up more in a corporate family. My dad was in business and he traveled a lot, but anytime I got to go to his office, I would see how professional everything felt. And so by contrast, when I started my own business or started seeing other ones, I thought that's the way business has to work. It has to be structured and organized. And so it's so unique and opposite of that, my wife's father had a business and it was a disaster, it was just stuff everywhere. And I couldn't tolerate that. So, it's funny-.

Lisa González (07:48):

Yeah. I think your wife and I have a lot in common there. That's what it looked like for me.

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Organizing The Chaos Is In Her DNA

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Chris Ronzio (07:52):

And then also the remodeling business, I've often told people that I feel like I'm good at remodeling because I see things and put structure to them and I like to organize chaos. So it's funny that you gravitated toward that as well. So maybe there's a hidden group of us process people that should be just remodelers,

Lisa González (08:14):

Absolutely. And I think maybe there's a DNA test or something we need to do and see what's the common chromosome in us. Absolutely. And yeah, if you come to my house, I try not to be crazy, but I think from the outside or ask my kids, they'll say I'm crazy. Just I try to stay organized. I think it helps a mental state for me. But at the end of the day, when it comes to business, we have so many things and there's so many things going on. But if you can capture and document the stuff that you repeat over and over again, it just frees you up to do the other fun stuff and be creative and all of that. So that's where at the end of the day, the value comes for me and my team.

Chris Ronzio (08:54):

Preach. All right. So you joined up with EOS in a way, and I want to talk about that. If people that are listening don't know the book Traction by Gino Wickman, he's been on the podcast a couple times, and EOS Worldwide is entrepreneurial operating system. Am I getting the acronym right?

Lisa González (09:12):

Absolutely.

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Discovering EOS

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Chris Ronzio (09:13):

So you read the book and how did EOS become part of your world?

Lisa González (09:18):

Absolutely. So, someone in YPO, which is a young professionals organization, and if you're a new entrepreneur or a successful entrepreneur and don't know about it, it's really one of the first places I recommend people go that or EO and just look it up online and you can find it. But it's a peer support group-.

Chris Ronzio (09:36):

For sure.

Lisa González (09:36):

... for entrepreneurs. And so we were a member of YPO and the visionary in the company, someone had handed him a copy of Traction and he just turned around and handed it to me. We implemented it in the company. I read a ton of business books and I never devoured a book like I did that book where book post-it notes and earmarked and everything. And so we implemented in the organization, we ended up opening up other markets in Illinois and Minnesota. And because of EOS, we were able to scale in an appropriate way where we had leadership teams, all the markets, we had consistent profitability, consistent revenue, and just had more fun. And so I was able to transition out. I knew the impact it had made on our own lives and I loved, I wanted to share with other people. So I went out, I got trained and became a part of the EOS community as a EOS implementer.

Chris Ronzio (10:32):

And I think it's an amazing community. Same with me, when I read that book, I couldn't put it down, because it's so practical, it's so actionable, and I think that's why it's so recommended and millions of people have read the book. So great book for anyone that's listening. But let's get into your book, which is one of the family there. So again, Process is the name of the book. You wrote the book with Mike Peyton, who goes by Peyton. We were just talking about him. He's another sought after EOS implementer and runs a EOS podcast. So how did the collaboration between the two of you come about?

Lisa González (11:05):

So I'd heard through the grapevine that EOS was looking for a co-author with Mike Peyton. I reached out to Peyton, which I call him. So Peyton is the former visionary for EOS. And yes, he's an implementer as well. And we're super awesome friends and colleagues now, of course, over the course of two years of writing a book together. And I was selected to join him in writing the book. And we spent part of COVID, or a lot of, again, nights and weekends because we both had very busy EOS practices, but we knew that the driver was, that process had not been explained in a way that had appealed to entrepreneurs and their leadership teams.

(11:50):

And so it was very complex, not complex, but there's other systems where it's lean and Six Sigma. But process is, we wanted to make it a way that's tangible and accessible and simple for teams that are always growing and moving. And we knew that it had to be different. And so we took the principles that Gino Wickman had laid out in the original book Traction and really share, and the book shares with companies how to implement it in their own organizations.

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Three Myths About Process

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Chris Ronzio (12:19):

Okay. So last time we talked, it was around the time I was working on my book, mine hadn't come out yet, and we both were approaching this same problem. And I think it's interesting, as I read yours, the similarities between the two books on trying to first debunk the myths and why should you document, why is this important for the business? So I like how you put it. You said that there's three common myths around process. So can we unpack those a little bit?

Lisa González (12:47):

Absolutely. So before, sometimes for those teams that dive into documenting their processes, there's a step that we identify that needs to happen first, which is just a mental mind shift that needs to happen. And so the importance of committing as a leadership team. And often, so the book is written for the visionaries so that for the founders of these organizations. I know that people that are operational when they read this, they just amen, yes, yes. And so it's great, but we're not necessarily trying to preach to the choir. We're trying to have entrepreneurs understand that their visceral resistance to process is not well placed. And so the three myths that we address, the resistance falls on one of these three categories. The first category is this belief that me as an entrepreneur that I am not process oriented. And it's just not true.

(13:43):

The fact that when someone starts an organization, they do what works over and over again and they repeat that gig, that is a process. When a customer smiles because you package their product a certain way, you decide I'm going to start doing more of that, that's a process. When you find a way to make more money over and over in the right way, let's say you ship a product a certain way, that's your process. And maybe you didn't write it down, but just I think that entrepreneurs are so naturally process oriented, they get what works and they get it really quickly and they just don't realize that is them creating the processes. It's just when you begin to scale, of course, that you need to find a way to capture it and get what's in your head out so that other people can do the same thing.

(14:27):

So, that first myth of just, I'm not process oriented, it's just not true. And frankly, even humankind is process oriented. As we mentioned in the book, when we decided to recreate fire, we had to find a way to do that, communicate it to other people. The survival of the species depends on us communicating what is working and what's not working. So as a people, we're process oriented.

Chris Ronzio (14:52):

Every business already has process. If they're doing what they're doing, if they're serving customers, they have process. Process already exists. Maybe they haven't captured it, like you said. But process exists in all of us every day.

Lisa González (15:03):

Exactly, exactly, exactly. So, that's the first myth. The second myth is the concern that process just takes too much time, that we're too busy, our business is moving too quickly, it just takes too much time to do document. And the story I shared with you, if you're... Well, first of all, I think people underestimate the amount of time that lack of process is costing them. When you are having to rebuild a product because it wasn't done the right way the first time, or rehire and hire for the same position because someone didn't get adequate training. And so they keep leaving or managers are leaving because they don't feel they're being effective.

(15:46):

The lack of process is what's costing you time. And the approach, and I think you and I want to talk about this a little more in a little more detail, but rather than the approach that I took when I made the binder full of super detailed processes, that was a five inch thick notebook. When you're trying to document a hundred percent of your processes following a hundred percent of the steps to get you trying to get 100% compliance, and we call that the 101 approach, that does take too much time. But our approach that we map out in the book is a 20/80 approach, capturing 20% of the steps that'll get you 80% of the way there. High level checklists and flow charts and screenshots that capture how it's done in an entrepreneurial company.

Chris Ronzio (16:29):

Yeah. Yeah. And there's this catch 22 about the idea that it takes so much time to build process. I don't have the time, It's not the urgent thing in my company because of course, that's the thing that really sets us free. If you can document a process, even a basic one, like you mentioned, high level process, you are giving someone else, the key is the autonomy to be able to do that thing so that you now have more time to focus on other parts of the business. And people I think may in the moment think this takes too much time. But if you zoom out and realize how much time you're spending repeating yourself or retraining people over and over-.

Lisa González (17:08):

Exactly.

Chris Ronzio (17:08):

... That's what you have to add up for the equation.

Lisa González (17:11):

Exactly, exactly. And then the third myth that some of the concerns reflect is this concern that process is going to destroy your freedom, your freedom as an organization. And again, just exactly as you mentioned, what's killing your freedom is having to train and retrain the same employees or different employees in the same role, or answer the same questions over and over again. That's killing your freedom, being called out when you're at home on the weekend to go help put out a fire at the office. That's the stuff that crushes your soul as an entrepreneur and kills your passion. And that's frankly why we wrote this book, because you didn't start a business to live a life like that, you started a business to be free.

(17:53):

And we want, first of all, so that you can capture processes, the repeatable stuff, and document it so that you don't have to be addressing that over and over again. And that you can have the freedom also just then if that's captured, you have the freedom then to innovate and think about what's the next step for this organization or the next stage, or what does my organization look like or what does my exit look like? Whatever that approach is, that's what process. So that's why we say how discipline and consistency can set you and your business free, because that's at the core why I'm so passionate about process.

Chris Ronzio (18:27):

So you mentioned the word innovation there. I was going to ask you, do you think process inhibits innovation in any way? Because a lot of people think, if I've got to stick to the process, I can't innovate. So what do you say to that?

Lisa González (18:41):

So when we talk about process, and I hope people hear this, we're talking about documenting the stuff you repeat over and over again that will free your brain to then innovate, create, think about. And there's a great example, Atul Gawande wrote this amazing book, I'm sure he knows-.

Chris Ronzio (18:59):

Checklist-.

Lisa González (19:00):

... Checklist Manifesto.

Chris Ronzio (19:01):

Yeah.

Lisa González (19:01):

I think that's the book that years ago we even started me off on documenting as well. And talks about the fact these are high stake decisions that people are making in surgery, but in surgeries, people have checklists and because they do, then of course the physicians and the nurses can then have the freedom to make the high stake decisions that their careers depend upon because they don't have to think about the little details that are still super important, because if you don't wash hands and someone gets an infection, very small thing, but a very huge thing that's in a checklist because it's so impactful on outcomes. I hope I answered your question. If you have your processes documented, then it just frees your brain to really create where it's needed.

Chris Ronzio (19:51):

Yeah. And I think where I would add onto that is once you download the processes from your brain to free up that capacity and somebody else is running with that process, that doesn't mean they can't improve the process.

Lisa González (20:02):

Exactly.

Chris Ronzio (20:03):

We always want our people to be improving. And so I think that, that's just part of building a culture that has innovation baked into the DNA. If everybody's constantly wanting to improve the process, improve it, experiment, test, and then rewrite and then say, here's the new best practice, this is a new way we do it.

Lisa González (20:21):

Well, you made me think of a couple of things. One is something as simple as an HR process. We had a client, we had a person we interviewed for the book, a company we interviewed, and they talked about the fact that they had their HR processes documented to the extent that then when a new employee was able to join, because all of the stuff that everyone needs, whether it's filling out forms and all the onboarding stuff was captured, then as an organization, they were able to innovate in making sure people's business cards were on time or uniforms had their, excuse me, their name on it, or even decorating their workspace with balloons and sending a card to the home of the new employee saying, Welcome, thanks for sharing this person with our team. Welcome to the family. That's the amazing experiences you can create when you have documented processes because all the stuff that happens over and over again is captured, and now you can innovate in ways that really create an exceptional culture for your organization.

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How Much Of My Company Should Be Documented?

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Chris Ronzio (21:23):

Yeah, well said. So you mentioned that the 20/80 approach, and that applies specifically to the level of detail that you're documenting in a process. But when it comes to how much of my company should be documented, is there a guideline that you have for people? You said at the beginning when you made those dusty binders or whatever, you went too far. So what's the right amount?

Lisa González (21:48):

So we're looking at, so the book talks about, and you meant... Well, I'll come back to that in a minute. You spoke about everyone innovating and updating. I want to come back to that, just park it, and we'll come back to that in a minute. But the book talks about there's three steps for documenting your processes. We teach our teams how to identify your core processes. There are a lot of processes in your organization, but we're going to start with identifying five to 12 core processes in the organization. And as a leadership team, we explain how you decide on those, how you work together and identify those core processes. Then the second step is documenting and simplifying. So once you identify that list, you use that list as a table of contents and you prioritize which process should we tackle first? And we really encourage our teams to just pick a handful or pick one, just get started, but don't try to do all 12 at once because then you'll get none done. So pick a handful, prioritize and document. Yes, using the 20/80 rule.

(22:46):

So you don't have to necessarily break out a calculator, but just the concept is what are the major steps, 20% of the major steps that'll get you 80% of the way there because they exist, you should end up with one, two or three pages of a document of a process documented not 20, 25, 30 pages. And particularly in our entrepreneurial company, you move and change so fast and to your point, Chris, things change. That's why having a high level documentation is so useful because when you do update it, you update it and then you can go on to train people as we'll talk about later. So that's why 20/80 approach, bullet points, checklists, you and the leadership team decide what that looks like. And then the third step of this first piece of it is packaging.

(23:35):

Now you have to package it so people can both find it, and so the end user can use it, package it for the person that's going to be using it. So as a leadership team, you may have documented it in a Word document or with bullet points, but the person that's going to use it, what would be the best format? Would it be screenshots if you're teaching them software, or would it be flow charts? So would it be photos, or video? There's obviously so many options or text. So that's why all of... And often I hear teams complain this isn't happening or that and that because all of those pieces are important to identify, document and simplify and package in order to have your processes documented correctly.

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Core Processes Every Business Should Document

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Chris Ronzio (24:18):

So the five to 12 core processes, I'm going to put you on the spot. I'm curious, in all the companies you've worked with, are there some that just keep popping up? Are there-.

Lisa González (24:27):

Absolutely.

Chris Ronzio (24:27):

... low hanging fruit processes? What would those be?

Lisa González (24:30):

Yeah, absolutely. So think about processes that every organization has, and this is not meant to be like this is what you need to do, but this is just to get the juices flowing. So every organization has a process for an HR process or a people process or talent, whatever you call it, there's a process around how you bring people into the organization. Every organization has a marketing process, how you generate demand. Every organization has a sales process, how you convert that demand into revenue or how you convert that demand into sales. And then every organization has one or two operations processes and when you build the product or deliver the service, and then maybe there's other processes in operations. Most every organization has a finance process. There's maybe a customer service, I can go off the top of my head. Those are a few, but those are some core processes for an organization and that's a great place to start.

Chris Ronzio (25:28):

And core really is the right word because when you start to think about those big departments, how do we bring customers in? How do we do marketing? There's a start to finish core process there, or how do we deliver our product or service? There's a very core process there. And so what I'm curious from you is where does that bridge into really detailed training of the specifics on how to do a process start to finish? So I'll use the people one as an example. If you've got a hiring process start to finish and you map out the bullets or the flow chart, and you've got posting a job and doing it an interview, and here's a few steps of the interview and you send the offer letter and you add them to our system. When you hire that person, let's say that they're a recruiter, an in-house recruiter, how do you use that process to inform your training or where do you go next?

Lisa González (26:22):

In EOS we help organizations strengthen six key components of their business. And it's like there's vision, people, data and issues, component, traction component and the process component. So the process component, each of those components has two tools. And whether or not you're a company running on EOS, there's two tools to strengthen each of those components. And so when it comes to process, the first tool is documenting and simplifying, which I just went through the three steps of identify, document and simplify and package. The second tool is getting those processes followed by all, and that's what you're speaking to. And that tool has four steps to it. So the first step is training. So in order to, it's all well and good and it still takes work to document your processes, but it's really of no value unless you're going to get into the hands of your people.

(27:12):

And so the first step is training. So the people that would be trained on the process you're talking about the people process or HR process would be the people involved in onboarding or hiring people. So anyone that touches that process is the person that should be trained. So not everyone gets trained on a process that is not something they're going to be using. And you can train people in any manner you choose. It can be on a job training, could be during a weekly meeting, a special meeting design for the training, whatever that looks like. But you would train the people who touch the process. I sometimes like to include or are impacted by the process and maybe the process, the training looks different, but we had an example of a company who had a finance process, but everyone had involvement in approving invoices and every piece of the finance process.

(28:04):

And so everyone needed to understand what they were being asked to do by finance and why so they could get help finance hit deadlines that the organization could hit its financial reporting deadlines and all of that. But at the end of the day, make sure you train those who are using the process. The second step of making sure you get your processes followed by all is to measure people. So add measurements to make sure that you're getting the results you want. At the end of the day, the reason you have processes document is to get the results that you want and get consistency in them. And so we go into detail on how you can measure, it's not complicated, but we want to measure and make sure that we are seeing, are we getting the results with this process? And if we are, awesome, if we're not, what takes us to the next step? Which is the importance of managing people.

(28:55):

So we as leaders have to step in the role of if someone's not hitting, whether they're getting the results we need or getting the results we want, we have to manage them to it and identify are there consequences for not hitting these, getting these outcomes? Is there more training that's needed? What do we do to help support a person in and help or support the organization in getting the results that we need? And the final step of helping to get your processes followed by all is just the importance of updating, which is circling back to what you were talking about earlier, which is absolutely correct, processes change. And so we want to make sure that we have a person identified as an owner for each process and as they're hearing the need for maybe streamlining a process or there's new technology available to improve a process, we want to make sure that we're then updating the process and we go back around and redocument then retrain, reupdate measurements and all that.

(29:51):

So it's just this continuous feedback loop that ensures that you as an organization stay competitive and that you're doing things in the most effective, efficient way possible.

Chris Ronzio (30:02):

Well, the frameworks are in the book, and just to reiterate this, so the three steps at the beginning are, first you identify your core processes, then you document and simplify them, and then you package them together. And then to make sure that they're followed by all you're training people, whether it's shadowing or in person or whatever it is, you're measuring to make sure you get the results you want, managing our people and then keeping the processes updated so they don't turn into that dusty binder. So I love how you covered these and I think that those are great framework. So in the book you mentioned a handful of tools and I was very proud to have Trainual appear in the book a few times. I'm curious from your perspective, a lot of businesses when they start doing this work, they could just use pencil and paper, they could just start mapping out these bullet points. When does it make sense to invest in some kind of software tool? Is there a certain size of company or when do you think it makes sense?

Lisa González (30:57):

I don't know if I know the answer as well as you do, Chris, but I do know that there's times, there's really, there's organizations that can use Google Drive or Vimeo. There comes a point when you want your processes accessible for all. And so there are tools like yours that make them more accessible for the teams and you have a beautiful product, and that's awesome. I think at the end of the day, it's just super important for people to understand that, and I'm sure you encounter this yourself, that we can have awesome tools for our teams, but we still have to manage people to these processes. And I think even in speaking with you, we still have to document the processes. Your Trainual is not going to be able to do that for you. We still have to hold people accountable for getting the results because I'm sure you've seen this where you have a great software and we have to step in as leaders and make sure that they're using it to its utmost potential. Is that helpful?

Chris Ronzio (31:59):

Yeah, absolutely. I think the software will just continue to advance and we even have some things that start to record what you're doing in the browser and someday we will be able to document for you. But until that happens, it really requires everyone's buy in, and it requires the organization to be open about why we're doing this, why is this important in the business, why do we value this? And I think it's important for every person's growth to understand that they're not just the one being trained, but it's also their responsibility to document what they're learning and what they're creating as they grow in the business.

Lisa González (32:33):

Excellent. Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Ronzio (32:36):

So the name of the podcast, of course, Organized Chaos. I'm curious, when you think about organizing chaos in business and in life, what comes to mind for you?

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Organizing The Chaos In Business & Life

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Lisa González (32:45):

I think some of the stories we were talking about earlier, but the flip side of it too. The beauty of being an entrepreneur is the sands are ever shifting. And I think the more we can give our leaders the tools so that they can go back and realize why they started an organization, that why they started whatever organization they started, to really get enjoy the fruits of their laborers. And so I love the name of your podcast and I love how process contributes to that because people start out, they launch their vision with great hopes and along the way because they keep getting pulled back into the details that some of that energy dies and having great processes in place, obviously great people in place to follow them. My hope is that once they use these really simple tools, they can realize their dream and the vision they had for the organization when they started it.

Chris Ronzio (33:48):

Awesome. I love that. Well, Lisa, where can people find the book/ if they want to get Process! How Discipline and Consistency Will Set You and Your Business Free? Where can they find the book? Where can they connect with you?

Lisa González (34:00):

So the book is available everywhere where books are sold like Amazon, Barnes & Noble. It is sold in a ridiculous amount, blew my mind. They're already on the second and third run of printing. So because it's just something that people need so much and obviously people like you, Chris, just supporting us and in getting the word out. I can be found on LinkedIn. I'm an EOS implementer and I also run process workshops for companies running on EOS and just have a all day offsite where we help them document at least one full process and a map to do the rest. And so it's just a ton of fun right now and I'm really excited to be on this journey with everyone.

Chris Ronzio (34:41):

Awesome. Well, Lisa González, thank you so much for being here. Of course, we both have this affinity and love for process and it was fun to talk about your book. So congrats on the launch and thanks again for coming on.

Lisa González (34:54):

Absolutely. I think I see you next week, so thanks again for having me. You're the best.