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Season 02, Episode 20

How VaynerMedia’s Chief Heart Officer Leads With Empathy

with Chief Heart Officer at VaynerMedia, Claude Silver

About the Episode

This is part two of a two-part episode with Claude Silver, the Chief Heart Officer over at VaynerMedia. If you haven’t heard part one, definitely go back and give that one a listen because Claude talks so much about how to be vulnerable and how to be a leader during these crazy times. Otherwise, we’re jumping in mid-conversation to me and my brother Jonathan’s interview with Claude that took place as part of a live series we did called Training With Empathy. This was an event we did with Gary Vaynerchuk’s wine brand Empathy Wines where we interviewed top people leaders to talk all about the concept of empathy.

Claude Silver is the first-ever Chief Heart Officer. After nearly 20 years at numerous advertising agencies building brands for Fortune 50 companies, Claude found her home and true calling at VaynerX.

Her success in guiding client relationships, global brand strategies, operations, and management is driven by an abiding passion for creating spaces in which people can thrive.

How do you build the best human empire of all time? With heart.

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Full Transcript

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Claude:

Finishing week one of working from home. Gary and I spoke on a Saturday, and he’s been calling me on Saturdays when we have a second to breathe. How’s it going for you? And I was like, Gary, I am struggling. I’m like, I am so missing the energy I get from people in the hallways. He’s like, I am too. It’s like, what do I do? He’s like, you just need to have these jam sessions.

Chris:

What’s up, everyone? I’m Chris Ronzio, founder and CEO of Trainual and this is Process Makes Perfect. Now, if you’re just tuning in for the first time, this is part two of a two-part episode with Claude Silver, who’s the Chief Heart Officer over at VaynerX. If you haven’t heard part one, definitely go back and give that one a listen because Claude talks so much about how to be vulnerable and how to be a leader during these crazy times. So you’ll want to start there. But otherwise, we’re jumping in mid-conversation to me and my brother Jonathan’s interview with Claude Silver that took place as part of a live series we did called Training With Empathy. This was an event we did with Gary Vaynerchuk’s wine brand Empathy Wines where we interviewed top people leaders to talk all about the concept of empathy. And this again is part two of Claude silver. So take a listen and enjoy.

Chris:

Okay, so we’ve got a question here. You mentioned earlier on the stay interview, which I love. We do a welcome interview instead of an exit interview on why somebody picked us and you know, and try to understand that. But um, this, the stay interview, what do you cover in that interview?

Claude:

It’s actually pretty basic. So it’s 45 days in and then we do another one. Um, uh, what is it at the six-month review, the six-month review Mark, the 45th day, uh, [the] interview is very, very basic. It is, um, know I love this. Have you met your manager? Has the manager gone over goals, roles, and responsibilities? Um, and have you written down your own personal goals? And this is something we just started. So it’s literally we want to know like, have you met your manager is more than last. You’ve met your manager and you know where you sit but have you in, have you gone into anything, and has someone explained to you what it is that you’re required to do? You know, because at the end of the day, like you will be reviewed on X, Y, and Z. So if you think you’re supposed to do a, B and F, you’re completely gonna miss the mark.

And then that’s just a bummer. And then, then we go into the whole like [the] subjectivity of feedback and all of that stuff. So, um, so that’s what the, we just started this I tell you like literally, we started this in December. It was just at a point where it was like if I see another exit interview that I just didn’t get to that person. I was like if I only knew if I only got to that person in time or whatever. 

Chris:

And was it the biggest risk, somebody a month and a half in that just never got connected with the team? 

Claude:

Yeah. And, and especially on, in one particular department, I would say two departments, but one particular where we’re bringing people straight out of college or university in, they’re coming from a very specific culture, a lot of competition and a lot of like, um, uh, you know, perfectionism.

So one of the things that we, you know, it’s okay, I’m not going to, I can’t change anyone if they have a perfectionism, a plight that’s, that’s their thing. But we wanna we want people to know what the target is because it’s not fair for us to move a target on them and then all of a sudden deem them a poor performer. And then that’s a whole nother slippery slope. Um, so that’s what we do in that and it’s literally three questions and it’s really helpful. The other thing that actually Greenhouse can do, and that’s our applicant tracking system is every Sunday it sends me a report of a survey Greenhouse sent out to candidates. So I can see how we’ve done as interviewers and certainly in this day and age when we’re interviewing this way is very different.

Chris:

Yeah, I bet. So you mentioned performance. Someone asked, let’s see, Adrian says, how would you recommend one approach and employee who is not engaged during this time and has it been underperforming? I would say a thousand percent try to figure out how to ask them what’s going on at home. 1001%. Because what dawns on me there is, um, what dawns on me there is, are they not engaged because they are living with five people? Are they not engaged because they pay rent for their mom, and they’re afraid they’re going to get whatever it is. So is there something personal going on that they feel that they can share with you? And if not, I’d get someone in that for us people and experienced team or HR to, to ask them and then I would just ask them like, you know, is this just a form?

Like I would find ways to ask questions that don’t put any kind of blame or shame on them to see like what, what is it that’s not connecting? So you know, let’s be honest, if you have any kind of unseen disability that would prevent this flow, that’s going to be a problem. You know? So what can we do in that case? It’s just like, just like, you know, giving Grammarly to people like myself that are dyslexic. Like we just need to be able to do that. So then you’re not judging me on my spelling. So these are, these are things I would really just kind of knock on the door and ask, ask them some, ask them if it’s okay. If you ask them some questions about their working from home situation.

Chris:

Yeah. So I know sometimes it can be challenging to open that door. You don’t want to pry. Um, so is, is it, uh, is it just as simple as, is everything okay at home?

Claude:

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s, is there anything okay at home? I think it’s, do you have a set up where you can work comfortably? Um, you know, do you have wide enough WiFi? Maybe. Um, how has it been? How has it been working from home? Do you feel like you can get all your tasks done on time? Those types of things that are a little bit more prescriptive than how’s it going at home? Because I’m going to tell you right now, Hey, I mean, it’s great at home, Chris. I get to watch Netflix every night, which is not true for me. But yeah, no, that’s not the, I’m not looking for that answer, you know, or, or let’s be really honest. And this goes back to one of the questions Jonathan asked early, Hey Chris, how’s it going? How’s it going? Working from home, I know that I’m really challenged looking at a screen eight hours a day. Like, what’s going on for you? Like get vulnerable, get real, you know, you set the example.

Jonathan:

Um, so we have a question here from Weston and this, I was just thinking about this around how you structure your department, right? You were saying if they need to talk to you or if it’s somebody, somebody else in HR, like how is your department structured because throwing it all the way back to where you said the mission was to first scale Gary and then scale you like how one, how are you structured and two, how do you go about scaling an individual and what does that, what’s that like?

Claude:

Okay. So, uh, when I came into this role, I am, we had like three people in HR and I say quotes cause I don’t really use HR. Uh, and, and when I accepted the role from Gary, I said, you know, I’m not HR, right? He’s like, yeah, yeah, you’re going to hire a strong team around you, which we have it took some time, but I immediately changed the name of the department of people and experience because again, common sense is what really kind of like guides me a lot. And we are dealing with people, human beings, and their experience in our world from the minute they send their resume in to their last breath and so forth and all that yummy stuff in between. Um, and then I got help actually in structuring the department because remember I had never done this.

I was always told I was an HR person’s dream, which was kind of not cool because how did they know I didn’t add? Did they know right? I actually needed Grammarly. No one gave it to me, but that’s a whole another story. 

Chris:

Everyone should have Grammarly. 

Claude:

I mean, I should actually just like do an ad for Grammarly right now. But, um, uh, I consulted people in this world outside of the company in terms of what I needed to build. I did not know that they were called, um, HR strategist or HR business partners. I didn’t know anything, you know, so I consulted some friends that I had been meeting in the world and um, and they helped me figure out the types of people I needed. So I knew I needed people that could, you know, do compliance and benefits, but I didn’t want to be a no people and experienced team.

I wanted to be a yes. And we were built on possibility and, and you know, our Gary is an entrepreneur, so I want to be a yes and, not a no. So I needed to find the people I needed, but the people I needed with the right type of vibe and the texture that I knew could then scale me. And that’s going back to the next question, which is, you know, how do you scale, how do people scale me or how do people scale? Gary? I think I’m able to, you know, and I don’t mean this, I mean, I don’t mean this as a humblebrag at all. I mean, Gary chose me for this role because I think he saw that he and I have a very similar belief in human beings and we are optimists. For me, I need to make sure that  those folks that are scaling me, um, have a similar belief. I don’t expect them to be identical at all, but that their values are in a very similar zip code as mine. And I want to be able to trust them that they will go talk to Johnny and Sue and Sarah with that same type of care that I would. And so that oftentimes is that first line that someone on the creative team will go talk to their business partner. 

Chris:

I love that Erin just chimed in and said, finding people who can scale you love that concept. And I think it’s true for every role in a company, every leader should be looking for ways to support themselves to, to build capacity, to, to make everything function better. So I like how you approach that. Um, we’ve got another question. Innovative Human Capital Team that says our culture was built on in-person connection. We didn’t have a work from home policy prior to this. As a leader of our people operations, I’m struggling to adjust to this new way of working because I’m too motivated by human connection. So what suggestions do you have to continue a thriving culture with now a different situation? 

Claude:

I literally relate to you in such a massive way. I have never really seen myself as like a massive extrovert. In fact, I think I like, I’m an ambivert but week one coming out, coming finishing week, one of working from home, Gary and I spoke on a Saturday and he’s been calling me on Saturdays when we have a second to breathe, how’s it going for you? And I was like, Gary, I am struggling. I’m like, I am so missing the energy I get from people in the hallways. He’s like, I am too. It’s like, what do I do? He’s like, you just need to have these jam sessions. I was like, Oh. So I called them 12 at 12. Um, and uh, I do at 12 o’clock East coast time. I sent a, first of all, I started with people that had been at the company for only 18 months and I started inviting them in.

Um, I thought I would just get 12 people at 12 o’clock, and we would spend like 12 to 15 minutes together. I’m still calling at 12 or 12, but I get about 25 people now. Uh, and we do the, um, we do the check-ins, we ask how people are doing, what’s going on, what’s not working, you know, how has it been so forth and so on. And that’s when I do these icebreakers and that’s how I started this whole thing, which then I shared out to senior leads to take bits and pieces of normalizing a situation. But I start every single 12 or 12, and there’s sometimes they’re not at 12 now, um, with, Hey, thank you all for being here. I want you to know like, this is purely selfish. Like, I missed you. I missed being with you. I miss seeing you in the hallways.

I miss going to your offices, you know, I’ve traveled a lot, which will be very different now. Um, you know, I miss jamming with you. I missed your laughter. I missed the kitchen. And so I started this because it’s completely selfish. And then we go in and we talk, talk, talk, and then I ended up by saying like, Hey, if anyone wants to chat one on one, hit me up. If not, I just want to thank you because I really needed this. And then, and that’s, that’s the truth. And then today, two people wrote to me that I really don’t, I don’t even pass often in the hallway. Thank you so much. I needed that. So, um, the no-name person, that’s what my suggestion is. Use what you have to your advantage. Yeah. And so I put, I said, I started with the all, you know, I got a list of all the people that had been there for 18 months and then I threw it out and the New York Slack channel that tonight I’ll do Singapore like I was saying. Um, and really I have to, you really want to have like 15 people or less because you want people to engage and it’s not, this is not an all-day thing. It’s 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:

That’s a great suggestion. It’s funny, our, our, we have two people on our people team and our head of people is, her name is Sasha actually, which is a common word around your offices. Um, and she’s the same way. Every time I post something she’s like, I’m crying. I like, I miss everybody. So whereas where are my people?

Claude:

Chris or Jonathan, I just want to say one thing. Notice the way I start that conversation, which is vulnerable. This is for me, which by the way, I know it’s for them too. But this is for me and thank you for taking time out of your day to really fill me. You know? So I just wanted to stop there because it’s really back to the question because the question was what do I do? I miss the human connection. I miss it too. This isolation is grotesquely hard for me in many ways. I use that word, you know, in a big way. Um, so it’s like, look, I, I’m right with you now. I need this just as much as you. Hmm. It’s hard. Um, or, or I get in the parenting group and I’m like this is frickin’ hard, you know, so I normalize myself as much as I can, you know, which is a lot. Yeah.

Jonathan:

I was just going to say is one of the things that we’ve been doing that’s been really fun in our all-team meetings ’cause we’re up over 30 people now. So when we do connect, Zoom has like this breakout feature that you just hit the breakout room and it just shoots, you know, it splits the whole whoever’s on like your 20 or 30 or a hundred people. And so like the sub rooms that are five, six people that can actually just connect for the mount and it just gives them, you know, five minutes to chat together. It’s really fun.

Claude:

I’m going to do that. I’m literally going to just like spurt on them. That’s awesome. That’s great.

Chris:

We did the same thing. It was a brand-new feature and I just hit the button one day and everyone was thrown into these rooms. So it’s really cool if you’re using Zoom, check out breakout rooms. All right. Holly says, we’ve always been a remote team from all over the world, which has created very siloed teams. How do you bring the different cliques together easily with diverse remote teams from so many different cultures?

Claude:

Yeah. I wish I had a different answer for you, but I, I, I really do what I just tell you, you know, the 12 and twelves and I don’t, if I had to force the attendees, I would, I would tell you that if I was like, Oh gosh, people from London aren’t joining, don’t think I wouldn’t add them cause I would. But right now I don’t have to do that. Um, but I am literally, you know, I mean just taking people from different cultures and subcultures. I mean, the funniest thing happened the other day and I saw Corey Williams on the chat. So I love you and thank you for being here. And you’ll relate to this. The other day it was Gary’s Chief of Staff’s birthday, Marcus. He’s been at the company. He, I think he was an employee one, two, or three. And I don’t look at who’s coming into the invite.

I don’t look at who’s coming in until I start accepting people on Zoom. And it was all OGs. Every single person had been there eight years, or more and they all came on because it was Marcus’s birthday, and we had just the most amazing, like they, it was their party by the way. If anything, I was more of the outsider cause I wasn’t there eight years ago, only six years. So, that’s a subculture. They all organized and they, you know, got on the Zoom together yesterday, you know, the entire mandolins team media team got on the Zoom together. Like, so they’re, they’re doing these things, whether or not it’s together and these small little cliques or micro or macro. But I say, you know, if you have to force a little of it, it’s, it’s to everyone’s advantage.

Chris:

Yeah. Yeah. We use the Slack plugin called Donut. I don’t know if anybody that’s listening has tried that before, but it pairs you with someone random every week so you can have a little chat and that’s another way, a great way to encourage cross-team collaboration. 

Claude:

Yeah, it’s a great, great tool. 

Jonathan:

Claude, I’m curious, how will you measure the success of what you do? Like what, what are the KPIs of your department? How do you measure accountability of your actions? 

Claude:

So, uh, what I would probably normally tell you is one of the greatest ways I can measure ROI is retention and lower Christian numbers. That, uh, and word of mouth recruiting. That is an enormous way for me to know what the culture is doing and why people are staying. We’re in a slightly different day and age right now where we’re not hiring. So that’s one way that’s very difficult for me to tell.

Um, one of the other ways. So we do, we occasionally do pulse surveys. And then the, uh, the other thing, and this is not quantifiable at all, is um, how busy I am. I mean, it’s quantifiable cause you can see my calendar, but literally I can get, I can get such a sense of how people are doing by spending a little bit of time with them and asking the right questions and intuiting and listening. Um, and then knowing what I need to do with that person. So, you know, Jonathan, you’re a musician. I have three people immediately that I’m going to introduce you to that you’ve never met virtually because you’ve got a breakout jam room. And like Brian Chin, who’s a creative director, not only plays drums every day, he’s on TikTok every day playing drums. And I think you guys with jam and those types of things. Um, and again, it’s not, it’s not necessarily quantifiable, but so much of what we do is quality. It’s so qual. I mean, Gary is so qual, you know, I’m so qual. Um, so those are big ways. I mean I think, I think there’s a happiness factor that I really go for.

Chris:

Do you use employee net promoter score or anything like that?

Claude:

Nope. We’re just implementing a new tool, performance management, our first-ever performance management tool called Hibob for an implementation stages right now. And that will allow us to do all kinds of markers and surveys and all that stuff. But we have been so old school,

Chris:

Old school relationship building. I mean you can’t knock that. No. The text, just going to help. Uh, let’s see. Janet, ask, what are the main points or themes or questions you ask on the 12th, 12 at 12? Is it just a conversation just for fun or is there an agenda?

Claude:

So, um, remember when I was, I was mentioning the Rosebud thorn in the beginning. So the board is always the thorn. They don’t know that the agenda in the 12 and 12 is to hear if people aren’t doing well, what’s troubling in them? You know, is it that they can’t have a break? Is it that? So the first three weeks, what was troubling people, uh, and I saw this also on Slack rooms was they felt like they had to be attached to their screen and their phone 24/7 because like what else are you doing? Right? You’re at home, you have nothing else to do. Well, that’s wrong. We have lives to live. And so I sent out, it was every week I send out a, you know, Hey, it’s week six working from home, so forth and so on. Um, so week three was, um, I said the hours, the working hours that we work from nine to six.

And then I said, for working parents, just let your manager know that you’re going to time out at 9:00 AM at noon and whatever else. Um, I expect people to step away from their computers multiple times a day. Just tonight. Uh, the email that we’re going to send out globally is called Be Still. It’s a meditation company that is offering us 15 minutes of free meditation a day for every single person. So that’s awesome. You know, I’m just like, you know, putting that out on Slack constantly. So many people have raised their hands to do, um, uh, someone does, uh, planks at three o’clock, 15 minutes of planks virtually, you know, this is what the culture has done by themselves, but they do it because they know they have tons of permission to do it. There’s so much, so much runway with what is possible for cultures. 

Chris:

So much of the conversation right now is just about being there for people and listening and making sure everyone’s all right and navigating these uncertain times. Um, how do you handle people development? So recommending growth areas for people is, um, I’m sure that’s part of your coaching and is it something that you’ve been doing lately?

Claude:

Yeah, so a couple, a couple of answers there. One, uh, we’re doing management training again. We started last week, so we’re doing three sessions a week, and we’re also doing that in Singapore. And I keep mentioning Singapore cause I don’t want to, I don’t ever want to forget that they’re there and I don’t want them to ever feel like they’re not there. Um, and that’s manager training 101. And then we have leadership training that we’ll start that will start for directors and above soon. Um, we work with a coaching company called guided and it’s coaching as benefit. The employee pays, you know, an eighth, and we play, and we pay the rest and anyone could sign up for professional life coaching. So that’s something that is anonymous. All I know is who’s doing it. ‘Cause I can see just based on benefits if I wanted, I don’t need to know anything about it.

It’s not my business that’s really providing an employee with real like tangible, like facilitation, guidance, those types of things. Um, and we’re doing right now we’re doing, um, virtual presentation, um, presentation skills training. So how to present to a client on this or again, very difficult to read a client’s language, especially if you’re sharing your screen. Anything. You know, the thing about Vayner that I love and the thing about Vayner that we’re also moving out of is that, um, we will always be hackers to an extent. We will. So, you know, like I say, we have been old school for a long time or just implementing Hibob, which is going to change us in a way. I’m, I’m proud that we’re hackers. I’ve, I’ve worked at a lot of those other agencies that are very prescriptive and for me this, this works. Headspace is offering free meditation. So right on to Christy you mentioned that. All right,

Claude:

Check that out. I love Headspace. I did that this morning, so I think it’s a good, a good practice. All right. Um, any other questions? Please hit us up in the chat or in the Q and a and we’ll keep it going with a few more minutes with Claude. 

Jonathan:

Um, I would love to know how you’re approaching the outdoors right now because I know you have a background, uh, as we’ve talked about in, in outward bounds and I’m curious how you’re dealing with that. 

Claude:

Love that question. Wish I had a really great answer for you. But right now what I’m doing when it’s not raining here, as I take my daughter to this remote playground, and we run around, that is literally it. I mean, I’m on a Lake, so as soon as it gets warm enough, we’ll take the kayaks out and, uh, um, uh, stand up paddleboards, uh, and taking walks. I mean, I can take walks and, and it’s really, I’m in a very remote place, so I’m to be here and not in the city. And, and like I say, like I am breathing fresh air and there’s a Lake that I, I wakeboard on in the summertime. Uh, but, uh, nothing, nothing too juicy unless you think, you know, pushing your kid on the swing is great.

Jonathan:

With the company full time in Hudson yards, uh, being in the heart of the city, like how do you approach, um, fostering an environment where, um, you know, people can get out outside, out of the city? Like, do you, do you, um, promote that at all within the organization?

Claude:

Well, I’ll tell you what, we will be now, you know, um, we haven’t promoted necessarily getting out of the city, but we have, um, or partners with class pass. So, you know, we, again, we try to offer our people things that at least we’ll get them their body, mind, spirit doing something. It’s up to them if they want to do that. But there’s nothing that we have done, um, as of late, you know, to like get everyone out and skiing together. Yeah. It’s a lot of us. There’s a lot of us.

Chris:

I’m jealous that you’ve got swings. We are, our swings are all taped off with caution tape that near here. 

 

Claude:

That’s because I’m in the boonies cause of the Poconos and there is no one else around. I think there’s rust on the swings, so I’m fine.

Chris:

That’s funny. Jonathan and I used to go to the Poconos on vacation when we were kids.

Claude:

That’s amazing. Yeah,

Jonathan:

Love it. Loved it. I was like, the highlight of our summers was to go ride quads and our uncles, you know, for this in his backyard.

Claude:

That’s awesome. Yeah, I’m in a Lake harmony.

Chris:

Oh, cool. Awesome. All right. We’ve got someone in anonymous said, uh, how often are you measuring employee engagement? What’s the best way to measure engagement during this time?

Claude:

Again, we don’t have a, there’s nothing that I’ve done that is quantifiable right now. I think we will end up sending some surveys out, but as we’ve moved from like this triage and then, you know, and seeing people’s responses and seeing the emails that get sent to me or sent to Gary about, you know, the thank you for the transparency and whatnot into this kind of test and learn, we’ll end up doing that. We’ll definitely end up sending a survey. One of the things that I did yesterday is I spent a lot of my day with the different ERG employee resource groups. So, um, whether or not groups that are for people that consider themselves people of color. And so I spent time with each group talking to them about what they see, what they feel, whether or not, you know, the people that left the company where they, you know, did they feel like there were minorities in there, did they want to see more minorities and more diversity in senior leadership, all that stuff.

So it’s still very much hands on right now, but that’s something that we are moving to. And I, and I definitely think, um, uh, Hibob is going to help us. 

Jonathan:

So with eight or six, uh, I mean I do talk to them off the, you know, offices everywhere and 800 people and to not have gotten to that point yet. Do you have something about people should maybe stop caring so much about measuring everything? Like, like, cause everybody’s asking about quantifying, right? Quantify results that we can track and measure. Not caring about the data when it comes to people. 

Claude:

I’m not gonna say they should, or they shouldn’t. I, I’m a, I’m a people person. I get a lot out of, I pick up on a lot of stuff. Uh, Gary does as well. I think Dave, there, there is a lot of truth to data, but I think that there’s a lot of gray and you need context and how are you going to get context not in an Excel spreadsheet.

So we marry the two then phenomenal. But you have to have both. You know, you do have to have both, you know, so I mean we do reviews and all that. We score people and I can’t stand, I don’t even like that. I just said that. I hate that actually often, but um, reviews and, and uh, I dunno. 

Jonathan:

What was your review process like? 

Claude:

Well, the review process has been by, uh, twice a year, biannual where it’s peer review and, um, we review people based on, uh, what we call the honey and empire. So a lot of the, yeah, communication, EQ skills we are actually reviewing people on. So how will they communicate all of that stuff. And then the empire is whatever the business is of their job. So if you’re a seller, um, you know, are you bringing in incremental revenue?

If you’re a creative, you know, have you done some big blue sky thinking, those types of things. Um, and reviews are really tough because, and they’re interdepartmental. So I’m finding out, I’m asking about Jonathan not only from your managers, your line managers, but people you work with every day. Um, and even senior leadership. So reviews are tough. They’re really tough for me to swallow. I find that there are oftentimes people will use them as the one and only time to give someone criticism. And it’s just mean. It’s like, well, you had all year to just tell Johnny that, you know, you’d like him to prepare more before he goes and pitches a client. We’ll have to just save that for, you know, April. 

Chris:

Do you think that is a question from Eliza? Do you think that we should be delaying those kinds of reviews, performance reviews right now when it’s such a, uh, uh, concerning times, like a logically.

Claude:

So, um, we, April, we do them in April and October, which means we start the review process in the beginning of March. So we are sitting on 200 people who are ready for their review right now. And just today we’ve made the decision that we were going to go ahead and do them virtually. Obviously we want to be in person with people, but we don’t know when that’s going to happen. So we just rolled that out today. So we’re gonna give people reviews and you know, I, it’s normally it’s, I don’t go through people’s reviews unless, unless I need to or I’m curious. But in this case I’m really going to just kinda like double click into a lot of the reviews to just see if, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a tricky time right now, so I don’t want to cuddle anyone, but I also want to be very careful on what we’re saying.

Chris:

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I think, uh, you know, such a big theme of this has been listening, you know, the just scheduling these things and whether you’ve got a formal software like hi Bob, I think you said, or we use one called culture amp. We used to use another one called office vibe. You know, there’s a lot of tools. So whatever the tool you use is, whether it’s just filling your calendar with meetings or doing it in some software, um, collecting the feedback and making your team feel like you’re vulnerable enough for them to be vulnerable I think is such an important takeaway that I got from this. Um, so I love this conversation. Really appreciate it.

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