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Season 02, Episode 21

How to Create an Alter Ego that Helps You Succeed

with Performance Coach & Author of Alter Ego Effect, Todd Herman
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In this episode, I chat with Todd Herman, author of the Alter Ego Affect. Todd breaks down the process of creating one of these alter egos and why it's so impactful on your performance. A lot of times you hear these performance improvement coaches and they've got big philosophies, but they don't have the tactical sequence of how you can do something to get a certain result. And he talks about both the intrinsic and extrinsic motivators, mentors, alter egos, and all the things you can do to use your mindset, to shift your performance. I think you're going to love this episode.

Todd Herman is an award-winning author, performance advisor to athletes, leaders and public figures, and is the recipient of the Inc. 500 fastest growing company award. He’s been featured on the Today Show, Sky Business News, Inc Magazine and CBC National News. He’s also the author of the WSJ bestselling book, The Alter Ego Effect: The Power of Secret Identities to Transform Your Life. And lives in New York City with his young family.

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Full Transcript

Todd:

Get uniforms. Wear the same thing over and over and over again. Literally it's what the elite do. Like Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Gates even does this. Tom Ford, Tom Ford. Who's in the fashion industry produces nothing but new fashion has been wearing the exact same black jacket, white shirt, black tie for two decades.

Chris:

What's up everybody. I'm Chris Ronzio founder and CEO of Trainual. And this is Process Makes Perfect. As always we're talking with experts in process creation, automation and delegation. Basically the people that make business easier, you just heard Todd Herman. And this episode is all about the process of building an Alter Ego. Todd Herman is an award winning author performance advisor to athletes leaders and public figures. And as a recipient of an Inc 500 fastest growing company award, he's been featured on the Today Show, Sky Business News, Inc Magazine and CBC national news. He's also the author of the wall street journal bestselling book, the Alter Ego Effect, which is the power of secret identities to transform your life and a team. A book that my team just read company-wide he lives in New York city with his young family, but he's calling in from Utah in a mountain home.

Chris:

I loved this episode, not just because I read the book, which I think you should too, but because Todd breaks down the process of creating one of these alter egos and why it's so impactful on your performance. So a lot of times you hear these performance improvement coaches and they've got big philosophies, but they don't have the tactical sequence of how you can do something to get a certain result. And he talks about both the intrinsic and extrinsic motivators, mentors, alter egos, and all the things you can do to use your mindset, to shift your performance. I think you're going to love this episode. So stay tuned and let us know what you

Chris:

Welcome to Process. Makes Perfect. I'm your host, Chris Ronzio. And as you heard in the intro today, we're talking with Todd Herman, Todd, welcome

Todd:

My man. It's good to be here. And we're wearing matching glasses today.

Chris:

I can't believe that. When we first signed on we're like, are those really the same thing? So yes. Yeah, crazy. 

Todd:

So this episode is sponsored by Warby Parker. 

Chris:

Awesome. We'll reach out to them. So what we're going to talk about today is the process of building an alter ego, your book, the alter ego effect, our team, actually our whole company just finished this book. So it's really timely that we're talking. I saw you speak live a couple of months ago and I loved your presentation. So I'm excited to share this. And I think right now it's more important than ever to understand the alter ego and the mindset that goes with that.

Todd:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a, where I sort of hung my hat for the last, I mean, I've had my performance coaching and training company for 22 years. I'm starting at working with athletes and pro athletes and Olympic athletes. And then it evolved into a, another arm branched out working with CEOs, leaders, and entrepreneurs. And just in the process of me working with higher and higher caliber athletes, this sort of golden thread was starting to be revealed amongst the athletes that were consistently performing at higher levels than everyone else. And because I was working in not just one sport, this is what it kind of allowed me to sort of see this common, mental tool that everyone was using. And it was that they would say things like I've got this performance identity, I've got this person I step into, I've got this, you know, switch that I flick.

And, and for me it was always one of those things where I'd say, Oh, that's fascinating. Cause I, you know, I played college football. I was, you know, had a bunch of scholarships. I was a national ranked badminton player as well. And you know, someone's sitting there going back, I've been sitting in football. That sounds like two sports. That definitely definitely kind of work hand in hand, but I just loved, I mean, any chance I could get to compete, that's just what I love doing as a kid, when I was growing up on our farm and ranch in the middle of nowhere, any chance I could kind of get away and go and play sports. But, um, it was always for me, I was, I was like, Oh, that's interesting. Cause I did the exact same thing. My alter ego was drawn. I'm on the football field.

And, and, and then I was like, wait a second. There's actually, and I went back through all my notes on all these athletes. And again, like I'm now up to just coming up on 18,000 hours, working with people one-on-one not, that's not counting group or speeches that I've done all around the world and globe and stuff. And so I started unpacking this process for how do you do this? And you know, how do you consistently kind of trigger this? And then I got into even the historical context of it, which is that man, this thing's actually been used and referenced hundreds and thousands of times by really amazing public figures and leaders, Martin Luther King talked about it, Oprah Winfrey's actually mentioned it. It's just that they don't unpack it in a way where people go, Oh, that's the thing I should go and use.

It's more of just a very conversational device. 

Chris:

So it's like in the same way that your career kind of unfolded in these things and uncover themselves. I was reading the book and felt like that experience was fast forwarded through me. And I'm thinking like through my whole life of all these little moments where I was trying to, you know, be, be like someone else and how that gave me superhuman power. So let's get into it on the cover of the book 

Todd:

Before you go into that, because that's interesting. What I want to ask you is when you were doing that though, did you feel like you were being a little disingenuous or fake or inauthentic because you were using that as your own mental device to get better?

Chris:

I don't think I did. And I was trying to process why I felt like I, I, you know, I'd watch a TV show. Like the example I gave my team was if you've ever seen Saved By the Bell and Zach Morris, like Zach Morris was my guy in, in middle school growing up, I was like, Oh, slamming the locker. I want to be like him. So, you know, I'd walk through a crowded hallway and kind of take on that persona and in it until I grew into it. And so I don't think it was negative, but, but I never really thought about how, how much I've done that in my life. 

Todd:

But that's my point to people because some people are, so I hear this and they're like, okay, I get it. Like people get the concept right away. That's why it's helped with the books, kind of the book kind of flying off at shelves. But some people, when they're reading it, they're like a little bit shy about letting other people know that they're reading it because they feel like it's, um, a signaling device that you're trying to be something that you're not.

And yet it's actually baked into our human psychology. It's just how human beings work. We all need a model in our own mind to help us move into or grow into the next version of ourself. Like we all know intellectually that who I was 10 years ago is different than who I was today. That's why it can frustrate us. When we go back to family and friends who treat us like we were when we were 15 or 16, because you're like, you realize that I'm not 15 anymore. Right. That's and uh, and so the people who operate at the elite levels, they latch onto these mental tools and they just go with them. Whereas people who sit in what I call the average middle, they get so caught up in paradigms and concerns about what other people are thinking of them. And that's the point of one of the reasons why this is such a powerful way to navigate change really, really quickly.

Chris:

Yeah, absolutely. So I want to get into all the deep questions, but I think for anyone that hasn't read the book we're wearing the glasses there's glasses on the cover, you mentioned the historical references. So can you just share really quick what that story's about and what it means to kind of take on the persona of someone else? 

Todd:

Yeah. So, um, do you want my story or do you want the story of like why the glasses are there? Well, they're related. I think they are. Yeah. Um, well when, when, when people get into the book, cause you think about, uh, maybe Superman and Clark Kent and so, uh, you know, like, Oh yeah. Putting on the glasses, Superman used Clark Kent as his alter ego cause really the real, the real, individual was Superman. The person with all the superpowers, any wore the glasses to navigate the world and blend in and, you know, have a more muted personality, I guess.

Todd:

Um, and that's actually my, uh, my sort of my point to many people is the version of you oftentimes that's walking around, isn't the real, you, the real you is nested underneath a whole bunch of like beliefs and paradigms and stories and narratives about things that happen to you. And, and they end up trapping you and maybe wanting to impress other people. They're being concerned about judgment and, and all that stuff creates what I call in chapter three, the Trapped Self, right? Because, and the reason I say it's a trap self is that's the number one word that's been used by people when they say that, like, I just like, I can't get, like, I just can't seem to show up or like, I'm just not taking the actions. And that's what feels, it feels like you're in a prison it's trapping you. Um, and, uh, and so Superman is the real version.

Todd:

And that's what I say to people is like, there is this, that's why I call it the heroic self. There's the hero inside. Uh, and sometimes it's hard for you to just get it out there. You know, you hear these great terms or phrases that are used, like, wait, you just got to have the real you or bring your real, why don't you just be your authentic self, all lovely ideas. But they crumble on the field of play of action. They just have a hard time getting out there. But the alter ego, which was a concept that was first phrased in 44 BC by Cicero, where he said the, uh, in a letter to a friend. And again, this is Cicero is widely known as one of the greatest Roman statesman philosophers to ever live. So one of the wisest people of that time said in a letter to a friend when he was giving him sort of basically life advice, talking about the alter ego and how it's the trusted friend or other eye within.

And it's a really useful kind of frame for people to think about, because we all know that, you know, you know this Chris, as you've like scaled your business and grown that after a while, you're like, Oh, wait a second by me, simply trying to carry up the load of these goals and ambitions up the Hill by myself. That's a really hard way to do it. And then you're like, listen, I know that the better, the quality of the network that I have, the relationships, the friends, the more that I can just pick up my phone and make a quick text message to a friend who can solve a problem or open a door or whatever. For me, that's going to accelerate success. So we all know that having an amazing group of mentors, friends, acquaintances around us helps us accelerate success makes it easier.

It gives it more joy as well, but people don't think about navigating the six inches between their ears the same way. And that's truly what an alter ego is, is it's a model that you have within for how you want to be showing up. And it's inspired by maybe someone or something else that you admire already. And it's so useful for the brain because 75% of our brain is dedicated to the visual cortex. Um, and, and by having a very clear image of how you want to be showing up allows you to disassociate from this other image of what you think you are now and allows you to step into a new association, which then accelerates the pathway to success. But then the thing that's unique about what I walk through in the process in the way that I work with people is there's a whole bunch of other psychological switches, behavioral switches that are embedded within all of us that I want to flick with the process that I teach, that allows you to truly honor the idea that's up here and allow you to stay consistent with, um, showing up that way.

And just like you said, you said it perfectly before I became that person. You know, the Zack thing. Finally, I became that person. That's the beauty of this is you evolve into this new version of yourself and then, and which, which, which did what allowed you to, you know, live the way that you wanted to live or act the way that you wanted to act and, and invite new experiences in. So, the glasses itself, I use them for me. Um, uh, when I first got into business, when I was 21, like when I say business getting into like starting my business, I was super insecure about how young I looked. I was, um, 21 looked like I was 12 and I was starting this performance business. I didn't have a bunch of degrees behind my name. I didn't have a bunch of bestselling books.

Todd:

So, you know, I had this terrible psychology that was stopping me from taking the actions I needed to take to book workshops, or reach out to people to get a speaking gig or something to 

Chris:

like a negative self talk. You just didn't have that story running. 

Todd:

Yeah. It was just, it wasn't just negative. Self-talk cause even negative self talk. A lot of people get concerned about negative self talk, negative self talk is supposed to be there actually. Um, cause it's just the activity of the mind, the activity, the mind's job is to produce activity, thoughts. That's like the grudging, the heart for beating, right? It's just, there's positives. There's negatives. The problem that people could fall into is they engage with the negative self talk, thinking that it's really them. What I was the psychology that I had was actually more of a, a total paradigm.

Like it was a philosophy of only the people who had books on shelves were successful or had the authority to talk about these things. Only the people who had multiple degrees should be out there speaking on this topics because I didn't have degrees. I, you know, I had played college football. Um, and then I, uh, ended after my first year because I busted up my knee really badly. Couldn't play again. But the reality was I did have a really powerful process for the mental game because I'm not physically gifted. I'm not six foot four and 245 pounds on the football field, but I played in the zone and flow state consistently. So I had actually discovered this sort of process that you go through to get into it. And then when I got done playing, I volunteered at a high school, was working with the defensive backs there and I'd spend way more time.

I'm like, listen, you need better routines. Like you need to have a better game prep process. You need to set some goals for yourself. You need to stay committed to the person that you want to be. When you get onto that field, you need some breathing strategies. And I was just going, cause I had just worked out all this stuff for myself and kids started getting really good results and I was good at that. Um, but I wasn't a sports psychologist and, and that, and that wasn't what it was trying to do anyway. So it is, my point was, was I was resisting against doing the things I needed to do. And then I remembered, wait a second. I used to run them on the football field. Why don't I use that for helping me to navigate this new world I'm going into? And I thought they will draw them always and custom built for being an entrepreneur.

He's definitely built for playing football. So you needed something else. Right. It needed something else. And I took the inspiration. I was like, okay, well that alter ego was a model of being inspired from Ronnie Lott, Walter Peyton, and five native American warriors. And I can unpack maybe that later. So like how I stepped into that from a visualization standpoint. And then I was like, okay, well, who would be my source of source code? That's kind of what I call it. My source code, my source of inspiration. And it was Joseph Campbell who wrote the hero's journey and phenomenal mythologist I just loved his stuff. Um, he's actually the inspiration for the creation of Star Wars from George Lucas. And Benjamin Franklin. I mean, I would probably put myself up against anyone else in the planet for reading Benjamin Franklin's biography more than anyone. And uh, so him and then the third one was Superman and I was like, okay, well I had my uniform in the football field. Um, I have to have my uniform in business and I went out and I bought a pair of non prescription glasses at LensCrafters in West Edmonton mall where I was living at the time. And,

Chris:

And this is important. I want to point out you didn't need glasses, right? 

Todd:

Fake glasses. And this is long before Warby Parker and others made wearing glasses, just a cool accessory. And even when I went into the optometrist is like, yeah, but you've got 20/15 vision. Like you have perfect vision. And I'm like, can you just shut up and get me the glasses please? And it was because my association with glasses was that people who wore them, and this is actually based on my own personal history, the smartest kid in my class, my best friend growing up in Schuler, Alberta, Canada, population of 85 people, he had glasses, um, he actually won the national math test and uh, so glasses equals smart. I wanted to be more smart. I wanted to, you know, really own that space. So that's what I went and I put on those glasses and I had to step into really embodying the spirit and the traits and the abilities of Superman, Joseph Campbell, Benjamin Franklin.

Chris:

You got a process for this. I mean, the glasses are a totem or that it's an artifact that you put it on and you kind of embody those characteristics. I think people have been doing this though for a long time consciously by picking certain brands, right? You pick a brand that has baked into it some characteristics, or they've got some spokesperson that you want to be like, yeah, that's the reason I would buy Air Jordan shoes when I was playing basketball and feel like I could jump higher. You know, like you take on a little bit of that persona

Todd:

And scientifically psychologically, what you're actually tapping into is a concept called Enclothed Cognition and Enclothed Cognition is that we as human beings, we attach story narrative and meaning to the clothing that other people were and that we were okay. Now the trick with this, how it turns into enclothed cognition is because we do that. If we were to wear that thing, we actually unconsciously start to exhibit the traits, the qualities and the attributes of that item. And there's a great study that was done at the Kellogg school of management, where they were testing this theory of enclosed cognition. So they brought a bunch of students into a room and they did this, uh, eye color test where you've got the word of a color yellow, but it's done or it's colored differently. So we have yellow, but it's actually, the letters are written in orange and then you've got blue, but it's written in green.

Todd:

And the, and the test was you had to go through and say the words, or you had to say the color that you're not the word cause your, your brain sees the word or processes the word before the color. And, uh, so if, if the order was blue, but it was in yellow, you had to say yellow. And so what they did was they had a whole bunch of these on there. And, um, they tracked how many mistakes you made and how quickly you were able to get it done. So the first group that come in plain clothes, they do it track the data they leave. Next group comes in and they gave them a white coat and they tell him as a white painter's coat and had to put it on. And then they did it track the data they leave. Then the next group comes in, hand them the exact same white coat.

Todd:

Except this time they told them it was a lab coat or a doctor's coat. So they put on the doctor's coat or lab coat, and then they do it. So what were the results? The people who had the painter's coat on and were in the plain clothes, had the exact same data, no difference, but the people who wear the lab coat or doctor's coat, they were able to get that test done in less than half the time and made less than half the mistakes. Why? So why is that? They enclosed themselves in the cognitive traits and abilities of someone who's a doctor or a lab person, which is detailed, methodical, and careful all three traits that helps you to do what the test that you were just given. So our clothing lives in context as well to the skills or things that we're trying to bring to the table.

Um, and so when you think, when you know this about like, I mean, I'm just fascinated with the realities of how our brain works. That's my problem with personal home and self help spaces. They're actually pushing a lot of paradigms on people that break underneath the psychological structure of how we're, how we're built. So that's why, like a lot of our training doesn't look like a lot of stuff that you hear in self help books like affirmations, affirmations is very contextual. It's very dangerous. In fact, it can actually cause people to go into depression if you use affirmations, um, that's where there's no one size fits all with this stuff.

Chris:

So, so the Enclothed Cognition, you know, it's, it's funny. Should we give everyone permission to go on a shopping spree and buy some things that just level up their life? Is that, is that how your recommendation?

Todd:

100%. And actually here, I'm going to save you money, get uniforms, wear the same thing over and over and over again, literally it's what the elite do. Like Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Gates even does this, Tom Ford, Tom Ford, who's in the fashion industry produces nothing but new fashion has been wearing the exact same black jacket, white shirt, black tie for two decades.

Chris:

You know, there's, there's so much truth to this though. I remember like years ago when I was consulting, I walked into a client's office and I had these like little holes at the bottom of my shirt from washing my clothes too many times or something. And he was like, am I not paying you enough that you can't have clothes? And so I went out that weekend and I was embarrassed and I bought like all this nice stuff. And I literally felt better about raising my prices because I was wearing stuff that I felt proud of. So I think there's real truth there. So, so let's shift gears a little bit because I think everybody understands this concept and how you can trigger it and step onto your field of play. So we're going through a crazy world right now with COVID-19 and I found out early in our call that you were actually one of the first people to get this, which blew my mind. So first I want to hear how that's been for you. And second, how do you use these alter ego tools or mindset shifts to get through something like that?

Todd:

Yeah. Um, it's, you're right. It's a fascinating time. And I was one of the first cases in the New York area. So we live in New York city right now. We're actually in Utah, at my friend's mountain, big mountain lodge that he's got. So we escaped New York after we were through it. But first, um, I got it cause I actually had also 2020 from a health perspective has been a lot of, uh, you know, kicks in the groin almost because I ruptured my Achilles middle of February doing American Ninja warrior training with my daughter. And, when I went into the hospital to get the surgery, that's when I actually contracted the coronavirus was actually, um, at the hospital. So that was at the end of February. And so I was, I was, we were always, you know, this is my overachiever. I was always ahead of the curve.

So we were in lockdown before there was an actual lockdown. And, but, um, my experience, I lost 19 pounds in two days, cause mine started with a horrible flu. That's just, that's not for everybody. And then it settled into my lungs and um, it took about three weeks for it, to, for me to get over the virus. However, um, I was just, uh, seeing the talking to, or saw the doctor the other day. And right now my lungs look like someone who was smoking for 50 years. So it did a lot of damage on the side and it'll, I'll recover from it, but it's definitely a different experience. So it's caused a lot of fatigue issues. Um, and again, I want to say to everybody, everybody's, that’s what's crazy about this thing is everyone's response to it is so different. My wife, when she got it, because, you know, we were in a, you know, apartment in New York city.

Todd:

It's impossible to basically isolate someone there. So my all three of my kids got it. They were all done it in about a day, day and a half. My wife, she lasted about six days with it. I'm the one who got it the worst. But, um, the fatigue and then the other side of it is it's actually created for some of us, a lot of brain fog as well, almost like the same feeling as if you were in a depression. So yeah, it's, it's been strange. What's been more strange is really just the, a societal response. But when you understand human behavior, it makes sense because a lot of people who are, whether they're dismissing it and again, this is, this is a complex issue, you know, everyone's saying that there's just one way to do it. They just don't understand like it's complex.

There has to be trade offs that happen. I don't know if this is the best response, locking everybody down and then, you know, completely ruining an economy because on the flip side of it, you know, there's going to be, there is a massive mental health crisis. And because I work on mindset stuff and I've been doing this study right now of 92 CEOs and how they're responding and reacting to this crisis. 

Chris:

So I read through this article on LinkedIn and I'd love you to focus on that. Just the, the, the difference between a CEO that you're finding is just engulfed in fear or just kind of blurry and don't know what they're doing versus someone that is real strategic. Like how do you make that shift if you are stuck or in a fog right now? 

Todd:

Well, one thing the easiest, the, if there's, if there's one commonality that people who are being the most strategic right now, because so to break it down in this study that I've got going on and they have to fill out stuff for me every single week and only six of them knew me beforehand.

That's key because I didn't want to muddy the statistics that I'm going to get out of this by people just knowing my, my stuff. So, um, uh, so there's three distinct groups. There's a fear focus group. There is a unfocused group and there is a strategy focused group. And, uh, the unfocused group, it's the kind of qualities that they have been brought to that have been coming up is more, they're dismissive about this. Um, and they're the ones who are most, almost caught in a purgatory of inaction. Like they're trying to find a plan and they're not making a decision on a plant. They're just not making decisions. They're sort of in decision, um, overwhelmed, but in the strategy side, there's a huge difference. One of the huge differences between how they're responding and how other people responding is they are most leaning on, um, their strategic networks.

So there are people like other people that they have. So whether that's having more conversations with peers that are in their peers, not people, peers, other CEOs, other leaders, other founders, just to hear how other people are navigating it. And what this is actually doing is it's satisfying one of the basic human needs. When going through a crisis, I have this model called the CALM model, C A L M, which is, um, in, in times of uncertainty, volatility, ambiguity, and complexity. You need to have clarity. There's a need for clarity. Like, okay, what's this about? Like, how can I, the second one? And this is the getting to the whole, why navigating this with other people is important is people have a need for assurance reassurance. So I don't know about you, but cause again, it can feel like, ah, the great thing about this time though, is this is happening to everybody, right?

So the whole, it's hard to play any party for yourself because it's happening to universal. It's universal and it's, this is the, I don't know other, besides the flu epidemic or pandemic that happened in the 1920s, even though world war one and two happened, it didn't happen for every country, but this is a global thing. So it's a shared experience amongst everybody. So there's a assurance and reassurance when you come in and you have a conversation, like if you and I are just chatting about just how business with you and how's business with me, how are you navigating it? There's a comfort that happens. That's the need then? So the realness, so the assurance creates a feeling of okay. Comfort. Okay. And, uh, and so that's important. So the people who are navigating as well are leaning on those networks. So if they were already inside of communities and groups, those are the ones who accelerated out of and into new plans of action faster than others.

Todd:

So if you, if you, weren't a part of whether it's, you know, Y you know, 

Chris:

YPO young, you know, mastermind, CEO, Vistage, Y all those things, or having a, if you weren't involved in mentorship and coaching, if you didn't have, like, 

Todd:

I mean, I'm a, I always have at least three mentors and coaches that I'm working with at one time. Yeah. So, uh, so that's, it, that's a key thing. The other side of it though, is because there is so much volatility. It is so easy for people to fall into. Um, fear-based thinking, um, it's attacking a lot of people's identities right now because maybe financials have been hit. Um, and for men, especially because we live through archetypes of where the providers, when going through crisis, this goes, this, this triggers the lizard brain, right? And so we go into fight or flight mode.

What it also triggers is it triggers our sort of baseline archetypes women. Um, cause I have the data on this, our trigger to move into caregiver mode, they're trying to take care of people. Um, and men, it triggers their provider mode. And so if your finances have been hit by this, you feel like you're failing as a human being. And this is, this is where the mental tool kits that I give people help to navigate this. Whether it's using an alter ego, it's like, okay, in crisis mode, who would, who would mind be? So mine, one of my core inspirations is Winston Churchill. I love Winston Churchill. So even me I'm in, in my own mind, I'm constantly modeling the idea of how Winston Churchill navigated world war II like, cause, cause this is actually this, our economy doesn't map to the great depression. Everyone keeps on bringing that up.

No, this maps to wartime this map, this is a war time economy. And because during the great depression, it's the, it's a different type of, um, settling in this, happening on the, uh, on the society in war time, there are forced closures. There are there's movement of assets here and resources here to, to deploy. And that's what's happening right now. So you almost create a separate alter ego for this situation then, right. Because it's not like you have this alter ego and try to think through, well, how would that person deal with COVID-19 maybe, but maybe you're piecing something new together to give you the tools to get out of this. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to find patterns. So what would land again? This is how I think I don't ever has to do this, but I, um, I go to, okay, this is wartime, who is one of the greatest leaders during war time, Winston Churchill, boom. And so I don't necessarily have to just use him. I can bring him into my suite of characters that I use in my own mind. Cause again, this is it's it's, it is a hallmark of phenomenal customer. Jamie diamond talked about this, he's the leader of JP Morgan chase talks about his own, um, a board of directors in his own mind that he goes to, to, to think through things and, and that's, and that's really what that's, that's an example of using an alter ego.

Chris:

So, I mean, for everyone that's listening and also Rigo is something you can use in good times and in bad, it powers your performance. It fuels you out of problem and problematic issues like these. Um, but you know, for anyone that's listening, you can probably tell Todd is a process guy. He has a process for developing alternatives. He's got a process for using them to enhance your performance. Um, and he's even been putting out awesome videos recently. So check out his framework, he made on clarity decision Y great video. I watched that. Thanks for that. Um, I know we don't have too much time left, but can we go into rapid fire answer on five questions? Do it all right. Let's go. Um, what's a brand you think has perfected its process

Todd:

brand. That's perfected. It's processed. Good question. Um,

Todd:

I would, I would go with, I immediately go to say, uh, Porsche. Hmm. I haven't heard that one. Okay. Yeah. Uh, you know, because, uh, I, I now I'm actually not a process guy. I learned it because it's a necessary part of excelling in life period. Right? Like, so I'm very much creative person, but if I wanted to create a repeatable outcome with my clients, I needed to have a process. So I mean, that's why I love your guys' stuff. Um, and, um, Porsche is one of my favorite cars that's out there. And, um, I love watching the documentaries on how they put together their assembly lines and stuff like that. So that when I think of like a company that's perfected their process, also, the thing that's unique about Porsche is that they're one of the few vehicle companies that's out there that you can, you can take a look at the style of a nine 11 now and the style of a nine 11 in 1951 and the process, it links together like a beautiful Daisy chain. Hmm. Wow.

Chris:

I'll just ask you about the documentary later. That sounds awesome. Um, who's someone that's coached or mentored you

Todd:

many people. Um, I would say the most impactful one would be Harvey Dorfman, who was the, um, King of the mental game world who truly was the master. He literally wrote the Bible of the industry called coaching, the mental game. He's known as the Yoda of baseball, every single major league baseball team, every single major, major, um, like elite major league baseball player was, um, his mentor. And I went and studied with him for 33 days at his home in North Carolina. So I could talk myself under his wing and I'm a big believer in apprenticeship. I think it's the most lost, um, accelerant to success that people don't get. People want to just, it's fast food mentality. I'm going to just call myself an XYZ in my LinkedIn profile, as opposed to going and tucking myself under Chris's wing for a year. If your aspiration is run a SAS company.

Todd:

And again, like I know a lot of leaders who they don't want people like that. And I'm like, listen, if I've got someone who's a shooting star, they're ambitious. If I can capture some of the magic of that shooting star for six months inside of my company. And I'm good to that person that person's a shooting star, they're never going to forget where they came from. And you might have a few people who are psychotic in some way, who will, who are going to forget. But, uh, yeah, so, and it was Harvey Dorfman talk a little bit yourself under someone's mind. I love that. Okay. A favorite book other than your own, uh, seeking wisdom from, uh, Darwin to Munger, amazing book, a lot on mental models, it would probably be, um, if, if people are listening to, uh, to you and our train, you will customers and stuff, they would get a lot out of it. Mental models helps you navigate life with speed. Oh, I love that. All right. Uh, two more, most entertaining person. You follow online, most entertaining person. Oh, I don't really follow that many people online. I, but I do. It's probably it's maybe a set the rock. I just find him fascinating.

Chris:

You mentioned him in the book. I, my kids are super into Mulana, so they I've been talking to them about him. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. It's like this guy not,

Todd:

yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. Big wave. Big wave. Is this character and actually you mentioned it. Yeah. I mentioned it in the book. Um, Kevin Hart, I find fascinating. I'm a big comedy guy, so I love following like say Bert Kreischer. He's another comedian. Yeah, the machine. Um, all right. Last one. What's one app you can't live without one app. I can't live without would be, um, any audio recording app, any audio recording app? So part of my process is because I'm massively extroverted. Um, and any time I need to create something, I'm a, I'm a huge, when you're extrovert, you're typically a huge relationship person. I never work in isolation. That's the, if you want to create a prison for me, it's ask Todd to write something by himself. So, and I like to speak out loud, so auditory stuff. And then I send it up into our, um, whether it's, you know, a sauna that we use or whatever. And then that stuff gets put into, um, you know, SLPs and stuff for us. Awesome. Great process. All right. Well, we'll link.

Chris:

I call those up in the show notes, Todd, I really appreciate you spending some time coming in here from your mountain home in Utah, to chat with us for everyone listening. Be sure to check out the book. I've got it in hard copy and on the iPad. So I could highlight the heck out of everything and search for a, for the keywords. So that's my process. That's um, where can people find you if they want to connect? After this?

Todd:

My home based on the interwebs is Todd Herman taught me and that kind of gets, uh, gets you to navigate towards all the different training resources and companies that, uh, that we've got and then links to social media there. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn as well. So Todd herman.me. And then for the book, if you want more resources, alter ego.com.

Chris:

Great. And if you're listening and you develop your own alter ego, I want to hear about it. So comments on this, or send us a note and we can promote that after the fact. Todd, thanks again, your chat. Hey, thanks for listening to process. Makes perfect. If you're listening on your earbuds on a run in the car, we also have a version on YouTube. So if you want to see this in color video with me interviewing all these great guests, check it out on YouTube, just search Chris Razo and you'll find my channel on there. If you found this helpful, we'd love for you to leave a review or rate the podcast. If you found the information valuable, please share it with a friend, a family member or anyone else you think could benefit from the information. Remember to connect with me at Chris Ron's Zio on all social media platforms or the company at train UIL. That's train you a L like a training manual, everywhere that you want to follow us. Thanks again for watching or listening. And we hope to see you next time.

Topics Covered

  • How Todd became fascinated with alter egos and they people who have used them throughout history
  • Why Todd wears glasses with almost perfect vision
  • The scientific concept of Enclothed Cognition and why we take on the traits behind the clothes we wear
  • Todd’s experience with getting COVID-19 and getting through it
  • The study he did on how CEO’s are handling the current climate and what the results were
  • Using an alter ego in both good times and bad times
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